0:00 – 0:27 – Episode Intro
This is the Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast, powered by Right Hook Digital, with your hosts Scott Seward & Raymond Johnston. If you’re an eCommerce brand founder, entrepreneur, or marketer looking to accelerate profitable growth for your business, then listen in ‘cause this is the podcast for you.

0:27 – 4:30 – Introduction of guest Tyler Berglund
Scott (0:27 – 0:43) – Alright, welcome back! We have a very exciting episode this week. So, we’ve got Tyler Berglund with us. He is a senior strategist at Right Hook and one of our big guns. Tyler, welcome to the podcast.

Tyler (0:43 – 0:45) – Yo, yo, thanks for having me…

Ray (0:44 – 0:45) – Welcome, Tyler.

Scott (0:46 – 1:32) – It’s really good to have you, man, and I’m pumped to have this chat today ‘cause, the last few weeks, we’ve kind of been reviewing 2020, looking at what’s been happening in the landscape of iOS14, and thinking a little bit more macro, I guess, in our discussions but, today, we’re gonna get a little bit more strategic and look at what the journey of taking a brand from that early start-up stage right through to 7-figure months, and through a pretty short time frame of 12 months. That was a really fast growth period. So, kick it off, Tyler, let’s just introduce yourself to the audience a little bit, your background, how you got into eCommerce marketing, and I guess how you ended up at Right Hook.

Tyler (1:32 – 2:57) – Here we go, absolutely! So, hi, Tyler, been in the industry for, we’re going on 6 years now. A little bit about my background and where I came from, I came from, like, a local start-up agency that was fairly small and grew and started the social media department alongside a couple other employees. Picked that from about 3 – 30 and with a ton of brands working with a ton of clients and quickly, kind of, realized, yo, I am not in a position to actually focus in and scale up on certain brands and businesses that I saw potential in, and the name of the game was really, how can we get more, how can we get more? In that process, I started to get a little bit frustrated and was, like, I don’t wanna do this marketing this way. I wanna do it in a different way. So, of course, I started looking in YouTube, I started looking around to which I found Mr. Dee Deng, talking at Affiliate World Conference about how he does business and how his agency is growing. From that video, I was like, man, I really wanna get involved with this guy, I wanna pick his brain, see what he’s about, and lo & behold, not even a week later, I see a post from some guy named Raymond Johnston in a Facebook group about Right Hook Digital. I’m like, oh my gosh, if this isn’t a sign from God, I don’t know what is, I have to do this! So, I signed up for the interview, got into Right Hook and, man, it’s been almost, it’ll be almost 2 years in September. It’s crazy.

Ray (2:56 – 2:57) – You know what’s really funny?

Scott (2:58 – 3:00) – That’s crazy how fast that’s gone.

Ray (3:00 – 3:08) – I’ve actually stopped posting in Facebook groups ‘cause I thought they didn’t work. I actually had no idea that it was from a Facebook group that you actually saw the ad post. I might have to start resharing again.

Tyler (3:08 – 3:17) – That’s what I’m saying, man! You got guys working with NFL teams and major global brands in those Facebook ad groups! I love it!

Scott (3:18 – 4:04) – It’s awesome, it’s awesome. The video of Dee’s got a few people’s attention, we get that feedback a bit. It’s interesting how people get sucked in by a certain piece of content and it really flows from there. Yeah, nearly 2 years, man, it’s been a pretty big journey. Even in terms of how we’ve changed since you’ve been with us and the journey you’ve gone on with a few clients. There’s been some big accounts that you’ve taken control of so let’s dive into one in particular. Obviously, not gonna disclose who the client is, but we’re talking to direct-to-consumer jewelry space, they came to us at a pretty early stage, right? They were only doing about 40K a month at the time…

Ray (4:04 – 4:06) – It was less than that, right, Tyler?

Tyler (4:06 – 4:17) – It was a little bit less than that. I believe the yearly average was closer, was under 40, and they had, kind of hit, they started to hit that 40 cap when we came in.

Scott (4:17 – 4:25) – Nice. Within the 12-month period, I think last Black Friday, we had your first 7-figure month with them.

Tyler (4:25 – 4:30) – Yup, and then another one followed up after that, and the rest is history.

4:30 – 12:34 – Client case study – what were the strengths and growth opportunities of Tyler’s client?
Scott (4:30 – 4:45) – Well, let’s go back to the start of that journey and, when you first started onboarding them, just take us back to, a little bit, where were they at in their business. What were their bottlenecks? When were they able to get past where they were at that point in time and what that journey started like?

Tyler (4:46 – 6:42) – I think a really important part of what we do, and something we don’t take into consideration, is the business owners and the business owners’ perspective and where they’re at, regardless of their business but the people that are actually behind the business. So, let me give you a little background there. It was 2 dudes in a super tiny office in a really big popular city in the United States, that’ll keep anonymous, but it was 2 guys running a giant show, in charge of manufacturing, right? So right there, inventory, not an issue. Huge, huge upside. Huge, huge plus. So inventory not being an issue, these guys have dabbled in the market, clearly they were seeing some traction and they were getting it off the ground, but they were, ultimately, like, ‘yo, I don’t know what I’m doing. I don’t know what it looks like to start scaling this. There’s potential here.’ That’s when, enter Right Hook. The initial CHASSM goes through, these guys’ gross margins, when I saw the margins on their products, I was like, ‘Holy shit! There is so much profitability here.’ These guys can make so much money, they had a decent conversation rate, their AOV was solid. Being jewelry, you know, it’s not super high-end jewelry so it’s not an astronomical AOV, which got me even more excited, ‘cause I’m like yo, that means purchase volume’s not gonna be an issue here. A lot of people can afford our stuff. That was through our CHASSM, our audit process, that I saw all these positive signs, and that’s of the business. Now, the business owner himself, a gem, a gem of a guy, completely egoless, totally under the assumption of ‘I don’t know what I’m doing and I’m here for you to help. You’re the expert. Tell me what to do. I’m down to do it.’ Right out of the gate, those are the two, like yo, how’s your business look? Very important to scale, but 2, the other factor that’s undersold is, where are you at as a business owner? Where are you at mentally? Those big boxes were both checked green and that’s where we kind of hit the ground running.

Scott (6:42 – 7:34) – Man, I reckon you hit some really key points there for any brand that’s looking to scale and scale quickly. Like, you’ve gotta have the, there’s a few foundational things that you have to have, right? First, you have to have, like, metrics that work, scalable business metrics. You have to have strong gross margins. You gotta have that room to move to be able to spend to acquire customers. So you’ve ticked that box, you’ve gotta have someone who’s got a logistical supply chain sorted, otherwise you’re just not gonna be able to scale and grow. Obviously, the second part of that is having the capital to be able to, you know, scale quickly as well and then the mindset side. If you can’t let go of things, if you’re micro-managing, if you’re a control freak, that’s really gonna become a bottleneck to growth. It sounds like, at the start, you can see that those three things are really, really in place and ready to blow things up.

Tyler (7:34 – 7:36) – Totally, totally.

Ray (7:36 – 8:19) – Tyler, I remember, I remember a year ago with them, I remember when we first started working with them. You were so pumped and jazzed up just around the mindset, I remember you saying that these guys, they wanna test everything. They don’t have an opinion about what’s gonna work, they just wanna test it. Man, I’d love to just hear from you. How did that free you up? You still scaled them up pretty quickly, 12 months, it’s a long time but it’s also a short time to go from your business, from the $40K to over a million. It’s actually a really quick trajectory if you really think about it. So, with that, like, what did that free you and your team up to do? I know you guys tested a lot, wild stuff, stuff that was super on-brand and the rest is history. Please dive into that.

Tyler (8:19 – 10:05) – Yeah, so, right out of the get-go, the way it makes me feel, as a strategist, is, one, I can start instantly, building rapport and developing a relationship with that person because I’m like, ‘yo, this guy is in sync with me. I vibe with this person.’ So the relationship, the foundation of it, was built on stone, allowing me to be free and loose and choose, yo, we don’t know if it’s carousels and top-of-funnel, we don’t know if it’s videos and top-of-funnels, we have no idea about anything! Everything needs to grow, including the content quality. Scott kinda touched on it a little bit. Budget is another huge factor and, I think, during that process of growth and during those initial phases of scale, how quick can you produce creative and how much money can you put behind this stuff. If you can put behind money and you can produce creative content for us, when we need it quickly, there’s no excuse, really, on our end to not find something that works. And if it’s a core issue with the website or CRO or something outside our control, we’ll also be able to identify everything quicker. And that, I think, was the most, I could see that then. I couldn’t find words to it when the relationship first started, but I’d seen that little glimpse of what the future might hold and could look like. I was jacked up like never before! This was the reason why I left my agency, my previous agency, I saw it. I’m like, if I can do this, this proves and validates every crazy foundational life shift that I just did to get here. I was stoked. This was my reason with this client.

Ray (10:05 – 10:29) – On the budget side, ‘cause, obviously, it’s easy to look back and see what happened, hindsight is 20/20, but what kind of constraints did you have in the very beginning? ‘Cause, like, obviously, to go from what they spent back then to what you spend now, there must have been some constraints. Was there a funding constraint? Looking back, you’re like, oh I could have done this in six months, I could have done this in 3 months, knowing what you know now, but what are those constraints?

Tyler (10:29 – 11:56) – It was, honestly, all the constraints were me. In the beginning of this client journey, I wasn’t asking for more budget to test faster. I was slow and steady wins the race. Typically, that’s how I’ve seen brands scale in the past. So in the beginning, I’m like, okay, I’ve got something really good going here. How do I not break it? How do I not eff this up? Take my time and go slow and steady. Sure enough, within, I believe the first round of testing, we actually kind of flopped. And it was the first testing, I think, we hit breakeven return on ad spend for the guys, but we did see high engagement in a couple different creative types, specifically carousels, that looked promising. We then catered it. Switch gears, now let’s focus on a couple iterations of this carousel. And we ended up finding one carousel that quickly started catching heat. Once I saw that heat catching, and seeing crazy top-of-funnel returns like 8x and 10x, when I see numbers like that, I’m not yay, yay, yay, let’s celebrate… when I see numbers like 8x and 10x, I’m like, let’s spend some more money ‘cause that’s just revenue I’m leaving on the table. I gotta put cash behind that so I can be making more revenue for them. Ironically enough, and this is total sidebar here, that carousel that initially scaled their business was just turned off last week. It had accounted for so much revenue for so long…

Scott (11:56 – 12:02) – You gotta love a winning ad, man! You gotta love a winning ad. When you get the right one, you get the right one.

Tyler (11:57 – 12:31) – Jesus! I’ve seen them die in a day. This thing lasted over a year and the reason why we turned it off is still not 100% performance. It was because the creatives are so dated. We have professional, studio-quality photoshoots, we hire a bunch of influencers, we work with a lot of content creators who have really leveled up the brand’s image in general. So it was still, like, the business owner was like, bro, I’m gonna ask you again, can we turn this off? I’m like…

Ray (12:32 – 12:33) – It’s like cutting off an arm.

Tyler (12:33 – 12:34) – Yeah, it hurt me!

12:34 – 22:32 – Testing phase of ads & creatives to scale a brand
Scott (12:34 – 13:34) – Let’s go back a little bit there. I think it’s really, really interesting. I think there’s often an expectation that you just switch ads on and boom! Shit explodes and it’s easy and you scale to the moon! It’s like crypto-currency style! What did that test phase look like? We’ve seen brands were it’s taken them 3, 4 months. You set up a testing plan, you prioritize, and often how long it takes to hit that right creative you’ve highlighted, that can take a day, that can take a week, or just because of order of prioritization and the way you’ve structured your testing, that could take 2-3 months, depending on how many variables you’ve got, right? You might have different personas, different angles, different messaging, different creative visuals, UGC, product-focused, whatever! There are so many combinations and it can be that one bit of creative that cracks an account open.

Tyler (13:34 – 13:35) – Totally.

Scott (13:36 – 13:39) – What did that look like for, in this situation?

Tyler (13:39 – 15:32) – Absolutely. I never forget a wise man named Ray once told me early on, you’re always one ad away from cracking a funnel, you’re always one ad away from cracking a funnel. So clearly, disclaimer, I’m a principles dude. I don’t vibe very well with talking about tactics. I’m more interested in why you’re doing whatever the hell you’re doing, but with that why, you can really drill down and get scientific. So when it comes to creative testing, you’re spending money, you’re making money, you’re losing money, what’s going on and how do you set up some parameters and some rules around the board to be successful? That all links straight to these core KPIs. These core KPIs I’m looking at and, specifically here, CPA is the CPA based off of their breakeven. What does it take to break even at a CPA dollar so how much do I need to spend before I can say, yes, this is working or no, this is not. And then I can keep a pulse on that CPA throughout the testing phase. Give it some time. Am I getting 5 purchases today or am I getting 50? What’s my CPA look like? Is it changing? There’s dynamism to Facebook advertising. There’s dynamism to advertising in general. What’s working now will not work sometime in the future guaranteed. These core KPIs, let that data, does the driving, not my emotions or what I think or what I feel. Mapping out maybe 5, 10 creatives, setting up a budget that’s appropriate to see and have these KPI benchmarks and checkmarks, see if I’m spending enough. What does it look like, am I hitting that KPI or am I not hitting that KPI? And it doesn’t have to be purchase. It could be less. It can be from add-to-carts, it can be from content view, it can be through even click-through rate. I can whittle it down to let the data completely do the driving for me. I’m literally just making decisions based off of facts, not how I feel.

Scott (15:33 – 16:45) – Exactly, you need those soft metric benchmarks throughout your funnel to know what’s working and what’s not, whether you’re on track or you know. I got another question that sort of ties into this, with your CPAs and your targets. A big part of being able to grow aggressively is really your mindset towards acquisition and costs versus retention and profit on the back-end. You’ve got different situations, right? You’ve got your mom-and-pop eComm store owners who often need, or their approach is often by necessity because they’re relying on it for their income. They need that 20, 30% profit on the front end and that’s their target, but that often becomes their glass ceiling for their growth because, especially with Facebook getting more expensive and changes that are happening, that may not be a viable approach anymore. In this situation, what was the client’s mindset and approach along with you towards the acquisition cost? Were you looking at it going, we can break even on acquisition and we can profit on the back-end or was there a target profit margin on the front-end? Because that can literally determine how much volume you can drive and how quickly you can scale, right?

Tyler (16:45 – 18:33) – Absolutely, absolutely. You know me. There’s a reason why I’m in charge of the CHASSMs/audit process at Right Hook. One of the number 1 things that I break in that, kind of, I would say conditioned… if you’re a business owner working with an agency, you’re conditioned to give a ton of shit about return on ad spend, flat-out. ROAS is what you deem as good or bad with your service. I break that right out of the get-go with a ROAS assumption-modeling calculator where we talk about forecasting and we look at what happens if I’m operating at break even versus a 3x because I’m spending 5 times as much and acquiring 5x more customers, what does that look like? The concept I always explain that people seem to really grasp here is go to your local grocery store. Anytime you’re at a local grocery store, and you spend a 100 dollars, and they’re trying to get you to sign up for their rewards card so you can get exclusive sales, discounts, maybe they even give you a $100 of free gas fill-ups just to get you in, and all you do is spend a $100 dollars. It’s ‘cause they’re not looking at you at the $100 you’re spending this week. They’re seeing you as $400 dollars a month. They’re seeing you as $4,800 dollars per year and that’s what this loyalty thing is. That’s why getting you involved at this grocery store is so important because you’re not just the $100 dollars today, you’re the $4,800 dollars per year. Having that conversation with the business owners, they’re like, oh my God, that makes so much sense, I totally get it now, and the focus then can really become customer acquisition and we, luckily, have calculators that we use to look at customer lifetime value or projecting to make sure that the CLTV is where we need it to be in order to continuously stay profitable.

Ray (18:34 – 18:53) – Tyler, that particular brand, obviously, when they first came on, we didn’t know all their CLTV ‘cause they haven’t been in business for that long, but as you guys grew in scale and had some of that historical data, how did that change how you ran the ad account and, also, did you guys adjust KPIs the more data you had come in?

Tyler (18:53 – 19:40) – The more data we had, for sure we adjusted KPIs. CLTV was always important to us, but we weren’t super drilled down on it. This growth happened quick. We were always looking at our month-over-month repeat purchase rate kind of decreasing, and we were like, oh my God, this is awesome! Our return customers were going down the percentage because the first-time purchasers were through the freaking roof! And at the same time, as we’re getting thousands and thousands of more first-time purchasers, the repeat purchase rate was still hovering around 20%, still hovering around 30%, a healthy spot. So the whole entire process, we’ve never been outside of 20-30% month-over-month repeat purchase rate.

Scott (19:40 – 19:55) – That’s awesome! I think that’s really key, right? You wanna be as strong as you can on new customer acquisition while maximizing the repeat purchases at the same time. Those are your two massive levers that you’re gonna drive long-term LTV.

Tyler (19:55 – 20:34) – 100%. What that looks like on the back-end is, in my opinion, completely outside of Facebook. For me, Facebook is getting that first-time purchase, spreading that awareness. What happens outside of Facebook, after they buy us, and how they know about us, like do they sign up for your newsletter? Do you have an email follow-up sequence in place? How do you stay in these people’s spaces once they brought your product? Are you incentivizing your reviews? Are you encouraging people to send you reviews by doing a giveaway of some sort of product or exclusive VIP… There’s so much that happens besides Facebook that can really impact the CLTV metric.

Ray (20:36 – 21:19) – With that particular brand, and when you were scaling up, I know, while we run a lot of paid media, it’s very common that we not only offer consulting and other areas of the business. We gel so well with all the brands we work with, especially you and this brand. What kind of conversation did you guys have and decisions you guys made together? Obviously, you saw the back-end, you saw how strong it was, how solid it was, which helped you have the confidence to scale harder. How did you guys constantly look at that and make those decisions, okay, let’s increase here, increase here or scale back. Not every month was green. Not every month was 20x like the month before. There were periods were things ebbed and flowed, right?

Tyler (21:19 – 21:26) – There’s actually only been one month out… it wasn’t necessarily green or growth and that…

Scott (21:25 – 21:26) – Okay, so we’ve got a unicorn here.

Tyler (21:27 – 22:32) – These guys are freaks of nature, man! But it’s always been consistently, the client was always as excited to educate themselves about these new platforms just as I was excited to tell them about it. Meaning, I would speak about Klaviyo and I’d speak about email sequencing. These two guys, one guy all of a sudden and this is pre-COVID times, saw that there was a local talk happening about Klaviyo, about email sequencing. It’s like, shoot, I’m gonna go, I wanna go, I wanna learn. He buys a book about email marketing. He learns about it. Now we can jam about it. They take the time to establish the common language so when I’m saying Klaviyo, when I’m saying email sequencing, he’s not like what the heck is that? He’s right there with me, and we’re able to jam and work through that stuff. Same thing with SMS and Post-Script, same thing with any Messenger bot that they might have set up. All of these things, we were educating and learning and growing together on so many levels just besides Facebook.

22:32 – 37:39 – What are the challenges and strategy shifts in scaling a brand for growth?
Scott (22:34 – 23:06) – Nice. I got another question around, it’s very different scaling from, you know, that 40-50K a month up to, say, 250K a month. And then getting from there to 500K a month. What were some of the challenges and strategy shifts that you had to do, or some of the barriers that you found yourself hitting that had to drive changes in strategy and what did that look like? How did you guys execute on that?

Tyler (23:06 – 23:53) – So there’s two different, again, there’s two different fronts to all these questions. My front looked like audience sizes, lookalike percentages, having to get kind of bigger and bigger to make sure I’m not blowing out frequencies through my entire funnel. We also tried some weird and wild crap when we decided to launch new products. I did a full funnel, CBO, of a collection that was getting launched and this full funnel CBO… I’m talking, it had, bottom-of-funnel DPAs in it, it had middle-of-funnel ads, top-of-funnel ads, all of that, jam-packed into one. This thing ended up providing us, like, I believe in the first month of launch, $250,000 dollars, this first wild time.

Scott (23:53 – 23:59) – Did you use any budget caps in those ad sets or just let it all stay open?

Tyler (23:59 – 24:17) – Initially, I left it wide open. I’m like, because power of five had been a thing that was talked about years ago and everybody hated CBO forever ‘cause that thing sucked. We were at this place were, you know, this was pre-iOS14 were I do think the pendulum is gonna shift back away from power of five…

Scott (24:17 – 24:21) – Yeah, it’s gonna get granular. It’s gonna get granular!

Tyler (24:18 – 24:36) – Sidebar! I don’t think this is gonna work anymore, but the timing of it happened to just go perfect. Free up Facebook to do Facebook on all these ad sets, throughout the funnel, and then we did end up eventually putting caps and spend limits on certain parts of the funnel.

Ray (24:36 – 24:40) – Tyler, what was, like, the linear thought toward you coming up with this test?

Tyler (24:40 – 25:32) – That test right there, the four funnel CBO? So, that came from, basically, like, shop talk. Me and the client get on the phone quite often, like definitely more than other clients, just because they’re like my brothers. I mean, I’ve spent time in real life with these guys, they treated me like family, I love these dudes. We were talking shop one day and he asked me, what’s the craziest, non-traditional idea that you can come up with that you wanted to test, but haven’t ever tested? I was talking, talking it through, and that’s what I landed on. You know what would be batshit crazy? A full-funnel CBO campaign. He says do it. He says do it, here’s 2 grand a day, go to town on it! That’s literally how the relationship has gone and that’s how much trust we have.

Scott (25:31 – 26:17) – That’s such a key thing, having that type of mindset to just test things. Because that’s the only way that you can, that’s the only way that anyone who comes up with something new uncover something new, right? Like, you can only figure that out on your own if you’ve got a mindset that’s looking at it as I’m buying data, I’m investing in trying to learn. That fear-based mindset would not let you do that and you wouldn’t have figured out that strategy that you’ve now been able to take and apply in other areas as well and across our team. Because a lot of our team went and started running that and it’s working really, really well as well. I think that testing mindset, from a founder standpoint, is so key and it gives you so much more room to move and do your job the best way you can.

Tyler (26:17 – 26:56) – And notice how I said, he told me to take 2 grand a day. Our AOV at the time was only $90 dollars, only around $90 dollars, and he says 2 grand a day. I know, if it’s gonna, I’m gonna learn if that’s gonna work or not so fast, so fast! Again, it’s totally to what you’re speaking, there’s no fear mindset going into this. There is no fear like should I be spending this much because if I was doing this at $10 dollars a day, it would take forever to make a decision as to is this working or is this not because we would simply not have that spend.

Scott (26:57 – 28:02) – It’s risk-reward, right? Like, let’s just say you did that for 5 days, spend 10 grand and, worst case, you broke even. You know it’s probably gonna convert, maybe you lost 20-30%. Upside, if it works, you’ve got a strategy that could literally drive hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s how you’ve got to look at these tests and look at it, okay, there’s risk, I might lose a little bit of money, but if I uncover something that works really well, it’s scalable. I’ve always kinda looked at forces and things like that in the same light. If there’s something that I want to learn, if I paid for a course or something, and there’s value in it, if I could find one nugget that I can apply at scale, what the hell’s $500 or $1000 dollars or something like that if it’s something I can take away and apply to my business or apply, you know, anywhere else, and it can drive tens of thousands of dollars in revenue. It’s such a mind shift thing.

Tyler (28:02 – 28:51) – Bro, that is the shit that I am all about! That is the essence of principle, you have to look at, there’s a cost associated with everything. There’s a cost associated with me being on this podcast right now. I’m not looking at their account or making changes in their account. That’s a cost. You have to, if you can learn to see that cost and not think of it as, it’s literally a dollar amount that you’re signing to a lesson that you’re willing to learn. As long as you’re learning a lesson, you can make great investments, some better than others, but there are your time and that money that you’re spending to earn this lesson, it’s up to you to take away and apply whatever the heck it is that you learn from it. That’s not just digital marketing advice, that’s life advice.

Ray (28:51 – 29:31) – We’re getting into mindset so much here and, I think, the thing about eComm, specifically, especially this brand that we’re talking about, the more you grow, the more you have to test. If anything, you have to adopt that mindset so I think, a big mental shift that we see, we often see at Right Hook, is some of these brands, they have the wrong mindset. They think that that’s money going down the drain, all they see is the cost and the risk. What they don’t see is the learnings, the buying of data, and if anything, the faster you can go through those cycles and those iterations, it’s actually a direct indicator of that success. Look at the brand you work with, Tyler. I mean, how many tests you think you probably ran in the past year?

Tyler (29:31 – 29:41) – There’s way too many. I would literally have to go through my change log and I’d have to go away for, like, 2-3 hours to get you an actual list of every single thing that we tested.

Scott (29:43 – 29:50) – It’s never-ending, right? It’s just, it’s infinite, ‘cause there’s infinite things that you can test. It’s never gonna end.

Tyler (29:50 – 31:22) – So example of, like, latest thing we’re testing, it’s super wild. It’s like a three-front approach here where we’re using a super-clout based influencer that’s known for something that is not related to our product, but has, we deem and we have seen through our audience overtime, has high affinity, particularly shoes. We’re using a high-clout shoe brand ambassador to promote a giveaway that we’re doing. At the same time, promoting all this giveaway hype and all this giveaway stuff. At the very end of the giveaway, we’re launching our new 20 products that, specifically, we are, personalized jewelry up until now. Now, we’re going into fashion jewelry. We’re using this huge influencer, launching this giveaway campaign, and at the same time, we’re about to follow up on the back-end with a brand-new product launch that’s all about anybody wearing everything, our market share and who we can actually sell to has just, the roof has blown off. There’s so much upside potential, and that is another thing, I think. As this growth and this scale is happening for business owners, these dudes were hungry and are hungry the entire time, grateful for every single step of the way but never slowing down to be like, oh, this is cool. No time off, man! We’re entrepreneurs out here! We’re grinding! We’re getting hit in the face, and we’re continuing forward, non-stop.

Scott (31:22 – 32:12) – Because it’s not about making the money to spend the money. It’s just about growing, it’s about the challenge of it. That’s why you get up in the morning. That’s a commonality between, you see, across the people that really love it and really wanna grow aggressively. The money’s just a by-product, right? Like it’s a bit of a scorecard, but it’s not about that. You touched on the influencer side there. I’m curious as to, that probably ties into it, what were the strategy shifts and additional channels that you had to start looking at once you started getting past that half a million a month. You need to start looking at other things, diversifying traffic sources a little bit, and there’s obviously, you know, they all tie in together strategically. How did that look like and what were some of the things you focused on to keep pushing that bar higher?

Tyler (32:12 – 35:16) – For sure. Something these guys have always done well, even before us, was getting involved with their community and getting involved with influencers. At no point was I, I was just consulting this whole time on things, but naturally and organically, they were crushing it. So, we started in the beginning with a lot of influencers, really smaller accounts, right, smaller accounts that we would send maybe a piece of jewelry to, and we’d have them get a couple of shots and they can keep the jewelry. We’d make them a necklace, make them a ring, a bracelet, whatever they like. They can keep it. Another benefit to being a manufacturer, right, is it doesn’t cost us a lot of money to make the stuff. We would give them to these people and they would start shouting us out then we started doing some bullshit Fyre Festival stuff where we’re doing coordinated influencers of all kinds of sizes at the same time. We pull up Shopify, watch the site traffic go up, but then overtime, really what happened was, it became more a movement within the customers, which I think plays a huge part in the CLTV. The fact that the customers would see everyday people and so many different people posting about brand, posting about what it felt like, how it looked when they wore it, how dope it was. The natural progression, right? People follow into what everybody else is doing so next thing you know, when our orders were only a couple 100, we’d maybe get 5 or 10 people who post on our ads, when they would get their product and be like, hey, this is so sick, look I just got mine today. And to now the point where we’re seeing tens of thousands of purchases happening, that’s hundreds of these posts on any ad that we’re making. Meanwhile, the influencer game is still ramped up to the point now where we’re paying a little bit higher-clout traffic and promotions. I mean, a 100K followers, half a million followers, bigger name accounts are starting to talk about our stuff, which exposes us to new audiences, which in turn has that compound effect on our ads. Now, when I post new ads, takes me about a month to see thousands of people engaging, commenting, posting. People that are like, how long does this take to ship? When will I get my product? People are organically our brand ambassadors. People, organically, are doing Q&As. Meanwhile, we have a dope customer service system, which is another key factor, I think, in any brand’s growth and journey. How are you treating people that are buying your stuff? Their customer service has continuously leveled up so much and I believe ZenDesk is what we use, on the back-end for that. We have automated flows that tie in to our shipping system, which will let them know which stage we’re at in manufacturing so they would text us a certain word or update and it would check the system and spit back where it’s at in the manufacturing process, letting them know how many more days they’re gonna have to wait.

Scott (35:16 – 36:19) – That’s cool. Visibility is such a huge part of that, right? Everyone just wants to know where their order is, what’s happening with it, how long it’s gonna be, just those little updates. I always find that with SMS marketing, that was a great way to condition people into a positive experience with SMS marketing. Just have those SMS updates saying, ‘your order’s in process, it’s being shipped, it’s on its way, it’s been delivered.’ Like, whenever we did that at the start, I always found that the experience was better and it allowed you to then use it as a marketing channel whereas, oftentimes, you put your mobile number in somewhere and you’ve completely forgotten about it and then 3 months later, you get a random SMS from someone asking for a sale. And you’re like, what the fuck, delete, stop! Lose my number! Just because, there’s been no relationship build through that channel. I love that you guys are looking at these like micro-wins.

Ray (36:20 – 36:38) – What’s surprising is those email and SMS receipts, like shipping updates, and maybe tracking updates, ‘cause we do that for a few of our brands. They actually have some of the highest revenue per recipient of people who opt-in to it, which is so fascinating, right? They love it so much that they’re actually buying again? What, is that possible? Apparently, it is.

Tyler (36:40 – 37:01) – My big red flag, huge disclaimer, to anybody starting email sequencing, email follow-ups, SMS follow-ups, any sort of automation, do not sound like a robot! Nobody wants to hear from a robot! Don’t say like, ‘Your package is in Day 3 at the manufacturing facility, it will arrive in 3-5 shipping days.’ Like, don’t talk like that!

Scott (37:01 – 37:02) – Have some fun with it!

Tyler (37:02 – 37:24) – Have fun, man! We celebrate! When our shipping is delivered, we send a celebratory text that says, ‘Time to get up and check that front door! Your package just arrived!’ with a bunch of like confetti emojis and stuff. It’s a celebration. Yo, it’s here, finally, your thing! Then they see it and the next thing, they like, yo, it is here! They’re excited, they wanna post about it! They wanna talk about it!

Scott (37:24 – 37:27) – It’s such an opportunity to convey the personality of the brand.

Tyler (37:27 – 37:39) – Exactly! So like have, don’t sound like a robot. Your brand has a voice. Your audience resonates with a certain type of messaging. Find it, use it, test it, change it. 100%.

37:39 – 42:35 – What are the other channels used to test out strategies for scaling the brand?
Scott (37:39 – 37:47) – Amazing. Were there any other channels that you shifted to or tested out during the later stages of scaling there?

Tyler (37:47 – 39:18) – The later stages of scaling where we’re at now, Google was always a big part of it. We didn’t manage the Google but I actually, personally, wanted a relationship with who was managing their Google stuff so I could be having conversations. Google kind of grew with us, Google is a static platform, it’s very chill. You know, you have your search impression share, loss to rank, loss to budget, it is what it is. You kind of find your caps relatively quick because of those 2 dope columns. But, the other platforms we started messing with, like TikTok and Pinterest. Yo, TikTok, specifically, whoa, crazy low CPMs, so much exposure and so much just traffic, seeing it as kind of another Facebook, right? Not in such an intent-based platform, but still a discovery platform. So much cost-effective traffic that it was driving insane… by the time we were driving this traffic, we had already had all of our infrastructure ironed out, tested, set in stone. We know that our emails convert, we know that our texts convert. If someone came to the site and just decided to sign up for our newsletter, we’re just like, yo, it’s only a matter of time. If we would’ve tried to force these other platforms or if we would’ve been like yo, let’s launch TikTok on month 2 ‘cause we’re growing and scaling, it had to happen exactly how it happened for all to allow these things to get in place, to allow these platforms to be tested and set up.

Scott (39:18 – 39:28) – Is your objective a little different there then? Are you looking at, how are you guys approaching that from an objective standpoint, like allocating budget to it?

Tyler (39:29 – 40:31) – Allocating budget to TikTok right now is strictly based on discovery. We’re looking at such micro metrics to see good click-through rates. With TikTok too, unlike other platforms, it has its own Pixel. All this effort and all this work and the seasoned Pixel I have, that data, useless on TikTok. TikTok is a fresh start. With that fresh start, it’s fun because you kinda work your way back up Pixel from optimizing for view content and then maybe you’re gonna get enough add-to-cart so you can finally do purchases. We’re in that process, but the meanwhile, it’s all cheers and celebration because we see all this new traffic coming to the website, which looking at Shopify and looking at our costs, our marketing expense ratio, we can see that that is still playing a part of it. We don’t care exactly how much because it’s so much new traffic, it’s like a new frontier for us. We’re just excited that we get to keep growing with something new. Same with Pinterest, which has a little more of a direct conversion report.

Ray (40:31 – 40:42) – It seems like you guys kinda came in with no big, preconceived notions on it. You took it for what it is and just tested it. It’s kinda like the mindset still. They just wanna test until you crack it, right?

Tyler (40:42 – 41:01) – They just wanna test. They just wanna test. Yo, being a business owner is stressful enough. They are so many things that stress you out as you’re figuring out fulfillment, trying to control your costs, your inventory, cash flow… so much! So stressful! Like testing…

Scott (41:00 – 41:49) – A bit of a long game too, though, right? I see that platform. If you go back, and think about Instagram and Snapchat, what were people saying at the start? Oh, it’s only people under age 18 or they don’t buy, blah blah blah! And what happened 5 years later? Those people get older and have jobs and spend money and start buying stuff on those platforms and they still use those platforms ‘cause they’ve grown up with it. I see TikTok, I think TikTok’s evolved so quickly that you do see a lot of older people using it anyway, but that younger generation, if TikTok continues on the trajectory that it is, in 5 years time, that’s gonna be a lot of older people who are using it and is probably going to become a much stronger platform. If you can build that audience now, and build that following now, even if it’s a small amount of your budget, I see that really paying dividends down the road.

Tyler (41:50 – 42:35) – That’s my whole point, like, have fun, right? When you’re going to these new platforms that are still not matured, not Google, it’s not Facebooks yet, that are so into ad revenue dollars, go in there and have fun! There’s no such thing as a music license on TikTok. You can put The Weeknd’s top chart after the Superbowl, track,  on your ad and show your jewelry or your product, banging out like the #1 jam of the month and get away with it right now. Have fun with stuff, man! You gotta go to these new platforms in a fun mindset. If you have these strict, stringent expectations, or you’re not in a healthy place from a business owner standpoint, I would say hold off. Get your house in order first before you start trying to do any additions or add-ons to your house.

42:36 – 47:19 – Spotlight on TikTok: what are some creative strategies working well on the new platform?
Ray (42:36 – 42:55) – So you mentioned, we’re on the conversation of TikTok and you mentioned having fun. I’d love for you to just tell us, what kind of things were you starting to see that were working pretty well? Maybe creative as well as, if you wanted to just go for a second, the creative and also the strategy, what was working well on that platform?

Tyler (42:55 – 44:22) – We did some really cool stuff. One tracking conversions and tracking, like getting down to the nitty gritty metrics, you wanna know if it’s profitable or not. We found ways to use redirect links in our ads to apply specific TikTok coupons to checkout. We could check these coupon codes to see how many purchases were we getting. Was it profitable? Did it actually make sense? That’s a tiny little tactic that I think everyone should… In terms of creative, native, native creative on TikTok, on these other platforms, Pinterest too, make it native. Don’t make it look like some standout ad. If it doesn’t fit in with the platform, people aren’t gonna vibe with it, and we found that out quick! We started taking lifestyle photos with our girls wearing whatever they might be wearing and a Nike shoe, they’re putting on their Nike sneakers or something that’s very like on-brand and very trendy with us. It looks cool on TikTok and once you have one or two creatives that are kinda killing it for you, TikTok has this thing called quick optimizations which is, might be one of the dopest features I’ve seen on an ad platform. You literally press one button and it will spit out three different variations of your creative that automatically applies TikTok filters. It will switch up the music. It will give transition effects to videos and you can continuously click that button 30 times for 1 ad. So you have 1 winning ad…

Scott (44:21 – 44:22) – That’s epic!

Tyler (44:23 – 44:27) – Yeah, dude, with like 5 button clicks!

Ray (44:27 – 44:32) – Do you pick the iterations or do they randomly suggest iterations, like music and things like that?

Tyler (44:32 – 44:41) – Totally random, totally random! Some are gonna be absolutely trash so don’t think you’re gonna find a goldmine here. You gotta still take the time to look at ‘em, 10 second videos, you know…

Scott (44:41 – 44:44) That’s a time-saver, that’s great!

Ray (44:45 – 45:01) – Just think about the trajectory TikTok’s on. Honestly, think of Facebook 2014 and 15, the ads were not that great. Come 2016 and 2017 and 2018, and here we are today. I bet that in a nice couple of years, the optimization’s gonna be freaking on-point.

Tyler (45:01 – 45:41)  – So, so true, so true. And that’s why, you know, talking again, stressing the fact that that data you’re making on whatever platform you’re on right now that’s not TikTok, if you’re on TikTok and generating that data, you’re gonna be in such a better position to scale and be successful with a learned TikTok Pixel in a couple months or a year or whatever it may be. Do it now, but again, only if you’re comfortable and cash-healthy with where you’re at. If it’s not, it’s not gonna be the thing that solves all your problems. It’s just if you’re a successful business and doing well now. It can be that next frontier for you and your business.

Ray (45:41 – 46:44) – I think it’s important to, for eComm brands, and you kinda said this several times, I just love the mentality that you were in the partnership you have with this brand, having fun, testing things. You guys don’t look at the money as a sunk cost, it’s like buying to learn, you’re buying data. I think, with TikTok’s Pixel, why it’s important is, especially for the people listening that wanna try this for eComm brands, it’s very different in that it takes time. You actually have to drive ads money from your ads to that Pixel and only when Pixel events fire from ads can it begin to accumulate and you can actually create custom audiences and optimize for those events. Be with the understanding that there is a significant amount of investment, you know, couple of grand, you actually have to go into and build up that data, start optimizing like the view content, add-to-cart, purchase events that Tyler mentioned. I think it’s just great that that brand and Tyler, you guys were okay with that journey and obviously now it’s paying off.

Tyler (46:44 – 47:19) – And you know that is what you just said, it’s worth repeating. It’s super important. You can install TikTok’s Pixel now and you can get that data now, but you cannot use that data unless it’s generated from the ads. It will be recognizing view contents on your website, it will be recognizing add-to-cart, but if that’s not coming from an ad, that session isn’t driven from an ad you have money behind, it will not count towards that optimization, it will not count towards that learning that needs to happen on the platform.

47:20 – 50:21 – How did the brand evolve in the face of growth potential and consumer demand?
Ray (47:20 – 47:47) – Yeah, that’s just so key… So Tyler, I’d love for you to just zoom out on the macro level. As this brand was expanding, scaling multiple platforms, you had to evolve your team, your team had to evolve, so many moving parts. I’m sure your tests exponentially increased. So can you maybe zoom out on the macro, tell us how did you have to evolve and your team evolve to have to face the demands of the growth.

Tyler (47:48 – 50:12) – Love that question. This was one of my early clients when I got to Right Hook. There’s a lot of stuff I’m learning, just about being a strategist at Right Hook. In the beginning, here I am and I have all these support members, I’m this pod leader that’s overseeing all these people, I was trying to micromanage everything. I didn’t trust anybody to do anything like up to par. I have to check the ads, I have to make sure the budgets are, I have to make sure the creative is – it was overwhelming. So I think, in time, really loosening up who I am and being a leader that’s not telling people what to do, but allowing people the space to ask me questions instead of me telling you exactly what to learn. As a leader, I feel like I’ve grown exponentially with this company. My personal growth is directly scaled up with this company because, now, I have, we have, of course, our processes, our daily things that have evolved overtime. Example, we do a middle-of-funnel organic Instagram post, we do a crawl every week, where we take 2-3 of our best Instagram posts from IG, organic, and put them into ads that we test. That was not a thing that I was asking anybody to do. That was something that my media buyer was like, hey I think this would be a cool idea if we did this. Really catering to that culture, what are you guys’ ideas? What do you think we should do? What do you think we could do better? All those types of changes and leadership is what I think was another big bottleneck. I wanted to make sure that I’m not being the bottleneck to this company’s growth and scale. I would say, from a leadership standpoint, it was totally loosening up that need to try to control everything and being more like my client in just, let’s test, let’s learn, let’s grow. We got lessons to learn. Let’s learn ‘em quick, fail fast. I hate saying fail. Failure does not exist until you don’t learn. If you’re not learning, then you fail. If you mess up or make a mistake, if you learned a lesson, you didn’t. It was just a cost associated with whatever the heck happened, the cost of learning that lesson. Some lessons cost a lot of money. Some lessons don’t cost a lot at all. It’s up to you.

Scott (50:12 – 50:17) – Failure is if you did it again, the same mistake.

Tyler (50:17 – 50:21) – Then you start to fail.

50:21 – 56:10 – What are the challenges and the roadmap for the future of the brand look like?
Scott (50:21 – 50:48) – So true! I’ve got one more, sort of, larger question. Where are you at now? Future pace, 12 months, goals, what do you think you’re gonna have to do to change, to hit those objectives? What does this roadmap look like going forward? It’s a big challenge going from 1 million a month to multi-7 figure months.

Tyler (50:49 – 52:04) – For sure, it’s a bigger leap. I can tell you some risks that we see on the horizon. Manufacturing capacity, right? How can we get bigger factories with more people to produce more for us? Huge investment, a big expense that’s on the horizon so starting to look at that now. We’re looking at costs internally. We have to start hiring more people. I told you, it started with 2 guys in 1 room. They just bought a ginormous office with a room to grow, I think we have 8 employees right now, but how’s it gonna look like when we’re doing 20 employees? What’s that gonna look like when we have manufacturing facilities in a couple different countries and regions? So considering those costs and looking at that and not letting it drive our deciding factors but keeping a close pulse on it is key. In terms of growth and what we’re gonna do next, how do we level up? By continuously leveling up our influencers, continuously leveling up, we’re thinking of loyalty programs, rewards systems, all of these are basic things that some businesses, I think every business eventually should have a loyalty program, but when and how to execute it, is totally up in the air, in my opinion.

Scott (52:05 – 52:25) – I think that’s interesting, though, because a lot of people are probably hearing that and going, what? A 7-figure a month business and they don’t have a loyalty or referral program. But, looking at the time frame here, you’re 12 months in, you can’t get everything you want and need in place in that time span so like you need that context to the growth trajectory too.

Tyler (52:25 – 52:49) – Absolutely, absolutely, and if you have areas that are producing for you, again, keeping that house tidy, the whole entire time, as you’re building and building on it is crucial. Just because somebody says that you need this loyalty program right now, if you’re crushing it on email and you still have all this opportunity with email, yo, focus, focus up on what’s working. Get that ironed out.

Scott (52:50 – 52:52) – Double down on what’s working, man.

Ray (52:54 – 53:07) – That’s a big problem. We often see some of our brands, like the shiny object syndrome. For example, they’re already crushing on Facebook or Google, and they’re like, ooh, I wanna try this thing, TikTok, Snapchat, Pinterest. But you’re only spending 30-50K a month…

Scott (53:07 – 53:51) – Or people try to scale internationally when there’s no limit to scaling their own country. I had this conversation the other day. Unless you’re capping out in the country that you’ve got, why would you add more logistical challenges to yourself? You’re going to another country, it’s often like launching a new business again. That can take time and if you only half-ass it then you’re not gonna really know why it failed. Focus on what’s working until it becomes a cap to your growth and then start worrying about… Obviously, I think, as you grow, you wanna be thinking about diversifying channels and things a little bit, but push as hard as you can on what’s working to get to a certain point first.

Tyler (53:51 – 54:08) – For sure. Just like my personal opinion here, that’s just why Google makes the most sense for an eCommerce brand to start, in my opinion. Google makes the most sense at the start ‘cause you can quickly see what’s my market share, where am I at, and what can I do about it?

Scott (54:09 – 54:34) – Especially if it’s DTC, right? Google Shopping is often the lowest-hanging fruit and it’s almost like that channel has gotten forgotten in the eCommerce sphere in a lot of ways because it’s just… Facebook and Shopify’s such a sexy, highly, rapidly-scalable thing that Google Shopping over here has gotten neglected a little bit, unfortunately.

Ray (54:34 – 55:05) – I love that, Tyler, you have the Google experience, ‘cause like you mentioned, you ran some ads on Google for a couple weeks, you can use that first-time impression share or you can actually look at the competitive metrics and actually see, for example, how you rank, how big the competitive base is for your keywords and, like, that’s why I like looking at Google ads. It’s capturing demand, Facebook, and social channels, and creating demand, so if you don’t have demand on the Google platform, you wanna scale, cool, now it’s time to go and create demand on social channels.

Tyler (55:05 – 55:54) – Absolutely. The other beautiful thing being at Right Hook and being a strategist that we, honestly, there’s Facebook strategist on my email right now. I absolutely hate that. It should say omnichannel strategist 100%. It’s not only, you’re saying some really key points about creating demand for a product. Now, taking that UGM of that traffic that generated that demand, plugging it into Facebook, if I have TikTok, what am I doing? Am I following up with my TikTok traffic sessions on Facebook? It really starts to be an omnichannel presence that is simply the way you’re gonna have to be successful. It’s not gonna be as easy as just starting a Facebook ad account and throwing another couple 100 dollars and having a 20x. Those days are gone, man!

56:10 – 59:35 – Quick-fire questions and recommendations for eCommerce brands
Scott (55:55 – 56:10) – And that’s just how your functions had to evolve with the growth of the business, right? You can’t keep looking at that one channel. It’s looking at everything collectively. Alright, we’re getting there, we’re getting towards the end. Ray, I think you got a few things to add.

Ray (56:10 – 56:22) – Tyler, for the end, let’s do a quick fire. Something special. We’ll try to do, but before our questions, here’s a few quick responses. Let us get to know you as well. Alright, Tyler. First one, favorite TV show?

Tyler (56:26 – 56:32) – Ozark. I wanna say Mad Men, I wanted to say Mad Men, but that’s cliched.

Scott (56:31 – 56:32) – Ozark’s sick.

Ray (56:33 – 56:37) – Favorite brand you like to idolize for creative inspiration?

Tyler (56:39 – 56:41) – Nike! Check the hoodie!

Ray (56:42 – 56:47) – That’s a great one! Okay, Tyler, favorite test you’re running right now on the Facebook ad account?

Tyler (56:47 – 56:57) – We’re doing a split-test for landing pages right now that I’m really excited to see the results of.

Ray (56:57 – 57:02) – Favorite success you’ve had on that brand in the last 6 months?

Tyler (57:03 – 57:18) – I think the biggest success I’ve had on that brand in the last 6 months was flying out to that really popular place in the United States and spending a week with these guys, just celebrating and having the best… it was the best time I’ve had in marketing, ever.

Scott (57:18 – 57:20) – Hang on, you came to the Gold Coast with us.

Tyler (57:20 – 57:21) – Besides the Gold Coast!

Ray (57:25 – 57:26) – Well, I guess I did say 6 months, didn’t I? So it’s cool.

Tyler (57:26 – 57:29) – You said 6 months, bro! There’s an expiration associated, I’m sorry.

Scott (57:28 – 57:29) – True!

Ray (57:29 – 57:44) – I recovered quickly on that one! Last question, and that is, based off what you learned, what would be the one key takeaway you would recommend to other ecomm brands based off the trajectory that you’ve had the past 12 months?

Tyler (57:47 – 58:11) – My one recommendation for other ecomm brands would be, it was repeated multiple times, keep your house tidy during your growth. Make sure you’re getting everything you can out of what you have before you search for something you don’t have yet. Be content and, that’s life advice, by the way. Be happy with where you’re at right now before you start seeking other things.

Scott (58:12 – 58:16) – Tyler, moving into the mindset coaching business already, very nice.

Ray (58:18 – 58:22) – I hope I see a course, Tyler.

Tyler (58:22 – 58:37) – Hey, there’s a reason why I, lowkey about me, pre-Right Hook, was a 210-lb Tyler. Current Right Hook is a 158-lb Tyler, like, different guy, different life, people don’t even recognize me anymore. It’s wild.

Scott (58:37 – 59:18) – Man, to see the way you’ve evolved over the last 18 months has been crazy. It’s been really, really enjoyable to watch from my perspective, that’s for sure. Man, this has been a fire chat! Really, really enjoyed it. It’s time to wrap it up, but I wanna thank you for coming on, man! That was, I think, dropped some bombs and just some great insights into what it looks like a little bit behind the scenes. Not just working from an agency standpoint, but what those challenges look like and growing a brand, growing it quickly, hey you have to have your head right, hey you have to have your shop right. Appreciate you coming on, man! That was amazing, thank you!

Tyler (59:19 – 59:21) – I loved it, dude! Thank you, guys, for having me! So honored.

Scott (59:21 – 59:22) – I can see us doing this again.

Tyler (59:22 – 59:31) – Bro, I’m so honored that the 2 people that interviewed me way back then are the guys that are doing a podcast with me now. I love it! I love it!

Scott (59:32 – 59:35) – Beautiful, thank you man! We’ll see you again soon!

59:35 – 1:00:31 – Episode outro
Scott (59:35 – 1:00:31) – Thanks again for tuning to this episode of the Growth & Greatness eCommerce Podcast. We hope you got a ton of value out of this episode and if you did, we’d love for you to leave us a review on your platform of choice and help us reach as many people as we can. Now, if you’re a brand founder, an eCommerce entrepreneur, or an in-house marketing manager looking to accelerate your growth this year, reach out to us at Right Hook Digital. We’re a performance branding agency and we specialize in partnering with eCommerce brands to help them hit their growth goals with maximum ROI. Now, if this sounds like a solution that you need, check us out at righthookdigital.com and schedule a call with our client partnerships team. They’d love to have a chat with you and see how we can help you grow in 2021.